like it feels like the only way out of this spiral into mass servile proud illiteracy in the imperial core is that, for the third qualifier, ego injury might push people into learning out of spite. I don’t know. What can you even say to people who don’t understand how to parse what you are saying, and then get mad at you about it?
Am I overreacting? Is this too blackpilled? It genuinely seems like this is a very dark potent, especially at this nexus of heightened contradictions
The weakness of the proletariat is that they are divisible and manipulatable enough to redirect them away from revolutionary activity. This was remedied by Lenin’s vanguard strategy in Russia and parties who adopted this strategy in the developing world, but it does take leadership to pull and push the masses to action.
The caveat is that despite this weakness, communists & socialists only need a segment of the population since segments of the proletariat also adopts the “go-along-to-get-along” and has a wait-and-see approach to new policies and states of governance.
If they can’t parse what you are saying, then typically what that means is that you need to explain it differently. It sucks sometimes, but communication isn’t just about them listening the right way but also you speaking the right way. That’s what it means to talk to someone other than yourself.
I actually got very very good at exactly this but entirely for the purpose of understanding and explaining stupid pointless business bullshit instead of anything actually useful. The upside is i could explain kubernetes to my grandma
Hey, that should make it easier to do the same in other cases too, so I think it’s a great thing.
I could if I read theory but it needs to be in OpenAPI format… unless
spoiler
openapi: 3.1.0 info: title: Marxist Theory API version: 1.0.0 description: | A dialectical interface for understanding class struggle, capital, and historical materialism. All endpoints are subject to contradiction and eventual supersession. servers: - url: https://historical-materialism.org/api description: Primary mode of production tags: - name: Class description: Endpoints related to social classes and their relations. - name: Capital description: Endpoints for accumulation, circulation, and exploitation. - name: Ideology description: Endpoints for superstructure, culture, and false consciousness. - name: Revolution description: Endpoints for praxis, struggle, and systemic transformation. paths: /class: get: tags: [Class] summary: List all classes in a given mode of production description: | Returns the dominant and subordinate classes for the current historical stage. parameters: - name: modeOfProduction in: query required: true schema: type: string enum: [feudalism, capitalism, socialism, communism] description: The dominant mode of production shaping class relations. responses: '200': description: A list of classes and their relations. content: application/json: schema: type: object properties: classes: type: array items: type: object properties: name: type: string example: "bourgeoisie" role: type: string example: "owners of the means of production" antagonisticTo: type: array items: type: string example: ["proletariat"] contradictions: type: array items: type: string example: - "Private ownership vs. social production" - "Use value vs. exchange value" /capital/accumulation: post: tags: [Capital] summary: Accumulate capital through exploitation of labor description: | Simulates the process of capital accumulation by extracting surplus value from wage labor. Warning: This endpoint inherently generates class antagonism. requestBody: required: true content: application/json: schema: type: object properties: variableCapital: type: number description: Wages paid to workers. example: 1000 constantCapital: type: number description: Machinery, raw materials, infrastructure. example: 5000 workingDayHours: type: number example: 12 responses: '201': description: Capital accumulation result. content: application/json: schema: type: object properties: surplusValue: type: number description: Unpaid labor appropriated by capital. rateOfExploitation: type: number description: Ratio of surplus labor to necessary labor. classTension: type: string description: Qualitative measure of rising antagonism. example: "escalating" /ideology: get: tags: [Ideology] summary: Retrieve dominant ideology description: | Returns the dominant ideology that naturalizes existing class relations and obscures exploitation. parameters: - name: rulingClass in: query required: true schema: type: string example: "bourgeoisie" responses: '200': description: Dominant ideology payload. content: application/json: schema: type: object properties: narratives: type: array items: type: string example: - "The market is neutral and self-regulating." - "Success is purely individual merit." functions: type: array items: type: string example: - "Legitimize existing property relations" - "Fragment class consciousness" falseConsciousnessLevel: type: string enum: [low, moderate, high] example: "high" /praxis: post: tags: [Revolution] summary: Initiate praxis description: | Combines theory and practice to transform material conditions. This endpoint is idempotent only in theory; in practice, it changes the system. requestBody: required: true content: application/json: schema: type: object properties: classConsciousness: type: string enum: [low, emerging, organized, revolutionary] example: "organized" organizationForm: type: string enum: [union, party, council, commune] example: "party" demands: type: array items: type: string example: - "Seize the means of production" - "Abolish wage labor" responses: '202': description: Praxis initiated. content: application/json: schema: type: object properties: status: type: string example: "in-progress" repressionLevel: type: string enum: [none, legal, police, military] example: "police" solidarityRequired: type: string example: "high" nextSteps: type: array items: type: string example: - "Deepen class consciousness" - "Build international solidarity" - "Resist co-optation" /history/materialism: get: tags: [Class] summary: Get historical stage description: | Returns the current historical stage and its internal contradictions, based on the material conditions and productive forces. parameters: - name: productiveForcesLevel in: query required: true schema: type: string enum: [low, developing, advanced] example: "advanced" responses: '200': description: Historical stage and contradictions. content: application/json: schema: type: object properties: stage: type: string enum: [primitive_communism, slavery, feudalism, capitalism, socialism, communism] example: "capitalism" keyContradictions: type: array items: type: string example: - "Socialized production vs. private appropriation" - "Global integration vs. national fragmentation" revolutionaryPotential: type: string enum: [low, medium, high] example: "medium" components: schemas: ModeOfProduction: type: string enum: [primitive_communism, slavery, feudalism, capitalism, socialism, communism] Class: type: object properties: name: type: string ownsMeansOfProduction: type: boolean sellsLaborPower: type: boolean positionInProduction: type: string securitySchemes: ClassPower: type: http scheme: bearer description: | Bearer token representing control over the means of production. Only the ruling class is authorized by default. Revolution modifies permissions. security: - ClassPower: []
2·2 days agoHow come no-one has taken that yet?
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I think you are falling into blackpill territory
But I definitely get it. The confusion, odd beliefs, and sometimes just proud anti intellectualism of some folks gets me down too
But like others have said here, more people support socialism and communism than you, I, or even they, know. When doing (what little) outreach I’ve done, I’ve been surprised at the amount of support we get. Growing in a very conservative place I assumed everyone was really just as vile as they are. And, while people may be kinda gross at times, more people are on your side than you realize!
If people are anti intellectual when we speak to them, then maybe we aren’t using a language that meshes with people. They may feel we aren’t speaking with them, just at them. I think there is a strain of anti intellectualism in America, but some of that may be suspicion of “elites” (and coastal ivy league schools are cesspools, but for class reasons) , some of it may be a coping mechanism where people feel like they don’t get the terminology (don’t talk to people using Marxist lingo from the get go) and feel intimidated or insufficient so they act dismissively to cope.
But I think the working class does want to understand something. But why listen to you VS all the other con artists with a story to sell. People are hungry for some political understanding and a place to belong.
Part of the “problem” here can actually work with us. Many people may not come to a conclusion because they thought about it deeply for years and analyzed all parts. There’s too much in life in order to do this for every decision or belief. For some people their politics will follow those of the people they trust. It’s a heuristic for cognitive overload.
If we are embedded in communities and workplaces, and are liked and respected people. Real people in others’ lives. Then we can get people on our side simply through being trustworthy and likeable people. And we have the extra pro of actually knowing what’s up in the world. That is amplified tenfold as revolutionaries become not just individuals but as organized groups and institutions (fingers crossed we get there!)
Some people need to be be convinced through deep argument. Some people are debate perverts. But I don’t think most people are. This isn’t to imply people are sheep either. It’s normal that people will believe what their group believes. So much of knowledge is actually just trust in what others tell you.
I know jack shit about cars, everything I think I know is from what trusted people told me and I simply repeat it. But I could be wrong. That’s normal for most things except the handful of topics each of us may have the energy and interest to deeply investigate.
So I think there is hope!
But of course the brainworms are frustrating and sometimes cocerning! That comes with contradictions of our class. You will find people who support you, but also have weird brain worms and horrible beliefs about other things…
That just comes with the territory. You gotta not wait around for the perfect proletariat. And remember the ideas we espouse really aren’t as fringe as we may fear. As people engage in this struggle, they will learn. The party, the vanguard, can be like a vessel or school that unites various struggles and unifies them into a revolutionary movement. That means starting with the masses as they are, and finding out how they can move into more and more revolutionary action
But jeez… The brain worms do get me at times lol
But we’re historical materialists. The act of struggle, and many Americans will find themselves thrown into struggle as shit breaks down, with an organized vanguard, will help us work through these contradictions. We won’t think our way through brainworms or to the revolution. We will act, and it is through that grass touching that the proletariat will, hopefully, consolidate and the brainworms will get worked through.
Then we’ll have a higher level of brainworms to work through. Brainworms so far out there that you haven’t even dreamt of them. The spiral grows ever higher. Something’s coming.
The random people ive talked to leafletting on one of the big avenues have been far, far more receptive than the supposedly literate, intellectual students at my university tbh
The guy most supportive of leaving nato ive talked to was this homeless guy who had some weird ideas about the population of china (and the world) and effects of nuclear war, but also told me and the comrade i was with that NATO was an aggressive alliance trying to start ww3. He was very receptive to the party’s position of “leave nato, cut military spending, build houses”
At university is where we get all the “communism = 1984 no food free stuff is against human nature” takes and demands to debate abc historical event or xyz theoretical issue
We must never stop explaining, but also, we can all explain things to different people. Some people I would not be able to reach, but someone else could, because they know how to talk to them and approach difficult topics without sounding condescending. We help the people we can, and those people in turn can help people we cannot, you don’t have to do it alone.
Paulo Freire. It’s the only thing giving me hope lately
I think this is a bad take, and it sounds like maybe it is based on online interaction. Have you been talking to people while canvassing or doing some kind of outreach to poor working class neighborhoods? Its usually not hostile at all. Often times it has more to do with your ability to listen to them and phrasing things with more popular language. We also live in a time with the highest number of college graduates ever- but that has almost no baring on whether a person is indoctrinated or not. anti-intellectualism is for sure an issue, but I would argue that is more a product of US advanced education being highly associated with elite status and smugness - the same smugness that the ruling class uses to tell people not to believe their lying eyes is also a signal to people that they are powerless to make decisions or agency because they aren’t qualified to know the ”Truth”
I can’t determine if you’re overreacting or not without more context, but I imagine that you probably are not overreacting. I was just talking with a friend about how the owners of the West’s best weapon on their side is stupidity. Stupid people self-oppress, and do oppression on others readily, on command. Stupid people don’t have the capacity to do empathy, to plan ahead, or to see chain-consequences further away than one or two links. And the bourgeoisie controls education, so I really don’t know how we address it on this side of revolution
The bourgeoisie control “compulsory education” and “higher education,” but they do not and cannot control “education” writ-large. It is also in our power to educate people, and if we don’t use that power then we have nothing, and that’s not something uniquely true of socialists in America.
So, functionally, from a Marxist perspective, this could be interpreted as a drive to maximize the lumpenproletariat. I’m not sure of the appropriate counter on a personal level, but teaching when possible is always a valid goal.
I think Hexbear would get through to a lot more people if you stopped acting like the retro encabulator video. I think you are capable of explaining your point with words and terms commonly understood by the laymen, and if you aren’t maybe you should learn how to communicate with “normal” people before you try to change their minds.
But I’m just a dumb illiterate so who am I to say.
This isn’t about hexbear “getting through” to people. Hexbear is a small niche community on the internet where some leftists who know about it like to come to hang out, commiserate, shitpost, and argue (usually but not always in a friendly way) with each other. I’m not OP but she’s obviously talking about a much deeper endemic problem in western culture of anti-intellectualism and is not saying “nobody wants to learn the terminology of Dialectical Materialism” the way you seem to have taken it. Just because the users here tend to be educated enough to understand what bourgeois-enforced social reproduction is, that doesn’t mean anyone here is expecting the average person on the street to nod in agreement when hearing it phrased that way.
I think you are capable of explaining your point with words and terms commonly understood by the laymen
Yes, I think almost if not everyone here is easily capable of doing that and many frequently do. God forbid we use Marxist jargon while discussing it amongst ourselves on our own communist community site.
Thanks for your concern trolling though, and missing the point while proving it.
we have that, he’s callled Cowbee
This post seems to be targeting other Hexbear users. While I do see new communists tend to try to flex fancy terms on non-communists, most of us do try to simplify a bit. When OP is discussing how capitalists use culture to socially reinforce anti-intellectualism in the public, it’s pretty clear to us what she means, but I doubt OP is going to use that same terminology when talking to someone outside the communist sphere.
You’re not dumb, nor illiterate, just likely unfamiliar.
I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
Thanks bot
