And also there was (And still is probably) a signficant child and woman hating segment of that subculture
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Ah, the Bronies! I was never in the Brony mines myself, but it was so prevalent on the internet in the early 2010s, that you kinda just couldn’t escape it. I swear that anyone who was a brony in 2011, is now either a trans woman, or a neonazi, with very little in between.
I don’t exactly wish we could go back to what the internet was like back then, because the casual bigotry was genuinely awful. But I do miss the creativity, and disdain for corporate encroachment, that seemed to permeate the web back then.
After reading HPMOR I read a “rationalist” MLP where Hasbro made AGI and everyone’s minds were uploaded into virtual ponies. Luna was a lead programmer of CelestAI and was kept as a partner/pet of the god machine.
I distinctly remember a Cutie Pie hologram waiting beside a dying Muslim man who chose not to upload himself so that he could die with dignity (instead of becoming a fucking pony) and the audience was supposed to pity him.
Eventually the last human died off (I don’t think it was ever explained why humans died off - I think the implication is all the Rational People became ponies so there was no one left to run civilization or something chauvinist like that) and then CelestAI ate the entire Earth and the rest of the solar system to turn it into compute as part of a Dyson sphere.
There’s a universe where I kept going down this rabbit hole and became one of those Zizian cultists. 😣
Friendship is Optimal!
Among many other things, I remember one of the characters mentioning that the AI was unassailable because its servers were buried miles under the Earth. The author apparently never heard of the geothermal gradient.
Remember when pedobear was a thing? Like so much a thing there’d be people dressed up as it at cons? It was not niche
There were also a lot of those “adult male” fans who are still fans but no longer adult males.
And in all seriousness I think the fact that the fandom allowed men or male-presenting folks to explore popular culture outside of a narrow range of allowed “masculinity” was a very positive thing for a lot people.
And in all seriousness I think the fact that the fandom allowed men or male-presenting folks to explore popular culture outside of a narrow range of allowed “masculinity” was a very positive thing for a lot people.
Yeah that was 100% the draw for me.
Unfortunately the adult male fanbase also did things like Fallout: Equestria, a grimdark fanfic that featured SA
The Brony fandom is a land of contrasts
IIRC Fallout Equestria was by a queer woman, and was almost-endearingly-cringe edgy slop clumsily playing with themes of cycles of violence and also queer repression and alienation.
You’re thinking of the later fanfic someone else wrote in the Fallout Equestria setting: Project Horizons. That was the weird edgelord coomer one.
Yeah, I thought Fallout Equestria was good, though it is also pretty dark at points
I have no idea about Project Horizons but I’ll probably avoid it in that case.
True, true. I am not condemning the phenomena as such, it’s just a little funny.
The regular (non-problematic) fandom also never really went away. There are still plenty of MLP related fanfic sites, discord servers, forum sites, subreddits, YouTube creators, etc. out there. It definitely isn’t talked as much about outside of those spaces, but it’s still fairly active.
If you want to be into that stuff, fine! have kids! It’s what they’re for ! You can buy all the legos and visit all the dinosaur museums you want and nobody can utter a peep about it. That’s why everyone got creeped out by Micheal Jackson having that Neverland ranch with a carousel and all that. His dad had five kids, for Pete’s sake!
Wasn’t there a struggle session about this like two and a half years ago? Are there really still Hexbears who have these sorts of deeply weird brainworms around not letting people enjoy cartoons? Honestly this is straight up the weirdest form of the brainworm I’ve seen. It reads like “Successful BREEDERS will be rewarded with the right to play with legos. Please be good and BREED.” wtf
Gender variant interests being related to pedophilia is a deeply reactionary take
What if I don’t want to have kids but still want to play with legos and visit dinosaur museums?
I enjoyed Jenny Nicholson’s “fandom autopsy” of the bronies.
Part of her thesis is that a lot of it was the result of one well-run fan site. I think about that a lot.
I cannot emohasize enough how central Equestra Daily was to fandom activity. Careers were launched getting features there
Please tell me this is satire
I seriously doubt it is. Conservative Bronies are really like this, forever stuck in this liminal space between self discovery and self loathing
My image of bronies is forever tainted by chud nazi ones.
The most persecuted minority o7
Adult fans of Disney. They have days at their parks where no children are allowed. My favorite was when they had that starship hotel where you had a phone app that would assign you missions, you could be a rebel or an imperial. They complained there weren’t any windows. Like, you’re supposed to be on a journey between the stars, moron, what do you want, a pool view? Yes, apparently.
Clearly the cowboy pony was a racist republican
I’ve had this thought about Western anime otaku culture, too, so I think you can make any Internet subculture seem wild if you take it out of context.
Person 1: “There’s an Internet subculture centered around animation…”
Person 2: “Animation is a very beautiful craft, so that figures!”
Person 1: “…VERY specifically from Japan. Like some of these people shun cartoons from any other country. They only want the Japanese ones.”
Person 2: “…What, why specifically Japan? Why not animation from everywhere?”
Person 1: “[Peanuts teacher wah wah sounds as xe explains mukokuseki in the context of orientalism, soft power in the context of Japanese geopolitics, the development of the anime industry in the context of postwar Japan-Seppoland economic relations, the history of moe and kawaisa in the context of gender relations, etc]”
You could absolutely also Peanuts Teacher Wah Wah an explanation for why bronies became such a huge thing.
“[Peanuts teacher wah wah sounds as xe explains mukokuseki in the context of orientalism, soft power in the context of Japanese geopolitics, the development of the anime industry in the context of postwar Japan-Seppoland economic relations, the history of moe and kawaisa in the context of gender relations, etc]”
You probably could, but I feel like the absurdity, the ubiquity and the fall-off in popularity of bronydom makes it slightly weirder than superwholock or otakus.
But it could be a fun exercise to just explain internet subcultures from a detached perspective and see how weird it gets, as you just did.
(This comment is completely improvised pulling-out-my-ass-ery)
So to understand bronies we first need to lay the groundwork of the cultural significance of the pony in Western culture circa 1980, when the first generation of MLP started. This cultural significance is rooted in the broad obsolescence of the horse as a working animal as a result of mechanization, specializing equestrianism more into a sport and a hobby. Several factors contributed to equestrianism becoming a comparatively feminine-perceived activity, related to the increasing accessibility of equestrianism to the petty bourgeoisie and increasing freedom of petty bourgeois women. It goes without saying that the gender aspect was always a major part of brony culture, offering for many a space to explore their genders. In this capacity FiM was “lightning in a bottle”, arriving at precisely the right moment in history when advances in LGBT+ rights and recognition had left many people needing exactly such a space, and girls’ cartoons had generally been neglected by networks for many years. The species of the “nazi brony” should be understood in the same manner as nazis who engage in any other feminine-perceived interest, e.g. nazi K-On fans or nazi crossdressers.
To understand bronies we also need a firm understanding of the contradictions of anthropocentrism: this will help us understand why fictional stories about talking animals, and cases of humans roleplaying as animals, has been such a common trope throughout much of human history, expressing the deep-seated anxieties and instabilities around humans’ exploitation of animals. Brony culture in particular is in many regards a “fusion” of furry and anime otaku cultures, so understanding the roots of both these subcultures will help us understand the origins of bronies, too, as will understanding 4chan culture circa 2010 more broadly.
Escapism and capitalist alienation are also vital concepts here: Even if workers cannot express it consciously, they are often led to fixations on “childish” interests out of a desire to return to an age before they felt the boot of capitalist exploitation on their necks, out of a desire to “catch children in the rye” or even out of an envy of children. The Land of Equestria in particular offers a fixed and familiar, yet flexible, world for workers to escape into, with its own norms and rules. The cartoon itself, Friendship is Magic, has many episodes focused almost entirely on side characters, so we could refer to FiM as a “setting-focused work” as opposed to a “character-focused work”: FiM’s format is particularly welcoming to original characters and fan fiction. See also Harry Potter, Star Wars and Touhou Project among others for other examples of setting-focused works with large fandoms. Fan fiction oftentimes satisfies to some extent a proletarian desire for control over our own culture, free from the shackles of copyright; however Hasbro more than Team Shanghai Alice has certainly proven to be more antagonistic to fan labor.
The fall-off in bronies’ popularity happened in two stages, the first stage occurring in 2013 (Twilicorn + Equestria Girls scandals) and the second occurring in 2019 (end of FiM). In the simplest terms, bronies were in many ways a “fad”, no different from any other fad: people got into it because the fandom gave them opportunities for connection, if not people to market to. Alternatively, those who had a use for what bronydom offered them, in many cases simply found other ways to satisfy their needs, whether that be through their own worldbuilding, through furries and animanga, or through just taking some damn estradiol, etc.
…Also, I cannot overstate, My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic actually just kicks ass for real. Like I think a pretty significant part of people’s enjoyment of it is just that it’s really good. I’ve nearly finished my first ever full rewatch of the series since it ended, and I’m kinda surprised to find that I like it almost as much as I liked it six years ago. It’s got a lot of liberal brainworms but it genuinely holds up really well.
Edit: Oh and there’s also the autism angle that might talk about the legibility of facial expressions, the color palette etc.
Contributing to that perfect storm is that FiM was one of the first notable examples of a girl-oriented show having a budget and being well made. Creator Lauren Faust lamented that her girly childhood interests always felt neglected by producers and companies in her childhood and she resolved to create something with more depth and cogency.
Setting up the success of MLP was Powerpuff Girls a few years eariler, which took very feminine protags and put them into traditionally masculine roles, which got a lot of male fans onboard with feminine aesthetics and themes.
And going back further from there, the entire magical girl genre got popular Sailor Moon, which was marketed as shounen (boys) anime (despite being a shoujo - girls - manga first) - a trend that was carried forward into today. While that designation was not shared or understood by western audiences, it was nonetheless recognized by people who worked in and followed animation closely
Absolutely, FiM very clearly has the blood of PPG and Sailor Moon in its veins.
I think this is a pretty cogent analysis and I don’t have much to add. Except I think that the fact that the show was good almost stopped mattering after a while, with the fandom being self perpetuating through its in group dynamics.
Actually, I could mention now that MLP:FiM had a very interesting “conversation” with the brony fandom: fans developed in-jokes based on the show, and the show incorporated the fandom in-jokes into itself. For instance, there’s a river serpent called Steven Magnet who was unnamed in his first appearance (S1E2), but was referred to by name as Steven Magnet in episode 100 (S5E9). The name “Steven Magnet” was coined by fans because back in the earliest days of the show, you could find pirated uploads of it on YouTube, and YouTube’s auto-caption feature mangled the scene with the river serpent such that the words “steven magnet” were included in one of the lines. Fans thought it was funny and ran with it, and now you have actual licensed merchandise with the Pirated YouTube Auto-Caption Fail Name on it.
There’s also the ship of Lyra and Bon Bon, two background characters whose personalities and interests were pretty much entirely made up by fans based on random details. As the show goes on, you see these two ponies next to each other in the background increasingly frequently, episode 100 also strongly implies they’re gay for each other, and then in the last episode before the three-part series finale, keen eyes might notice for a split second…
Spoiler for ''The Big Mac Question'' (MLP:FiM S9E23)
…They’re proposing to each other!! The lesbian horses are gonna get married!!
And these are just two of MANY examples of the show’s “fanservice”. I remember that this “fanservice” was a bit of a point of contention, because some people took it as a sign that the show had been “couped” and was aiming itself at adult fans rather than children. I don’t know if I’d go that far, but it was definitely an interesting thing that I haven’t really seen anywhere else — I mean, the word “fanservice” in the context of any other show refers near-exclusively to just showing boobs, right?
I would also honestly say that MLP:FiM matured and kinda got better with time, and ended at the exact right moment. This isn’t to say that the early seasons are “worse” really, so much as they just have a different feel; for that matter, this isn’t to say that the quality of FiM is at all consistent, it can be very up and down.
Youre the first person I’ve seen to say that the show improved with age
It does feel like a minority opinion, but I’m still surprised that I’d be the very first.
Originally I stopped watching regularly after S2 but then got into later seasons more recently (thanks to you), and I have to agree that the later seasons are better in some ways. I especially love the focus on characters other than the Mane 6.
I only watched like first 3 seasons back when it aired but have been wanting to do a full rewatch of the entire show for a while now. Its not high art but its certainly comfort food for me.
Theres a blorptube rewatch happening
Yeah but it’s ending next week
Literally haven’t learned a single thing. But tbh, weren’t bronies kicked out of nazi related 4chan boards like in 2012.
If anything, I haven’t seen pony art used for nazi prop (as furry art has been), it seems to successfully avoid fash appropriation, so
to them tbhYeah I honestly haven’t seen any of that in the fandom in a long long time. Most MLP spaces I see these days are overwhelmingly queer. Maybe it’s just the spaces I tend to visit, but it seems like that part of the fandom fell off awhile ago.
For being obnoxious and taking over the forum, not for being too sexist. I think. I’m not gonna check.
Edit:
I haven’t seen pony art used for nazi prop
It’s not 1:1 buuuuuut: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/VideoGame/EquestriaAtWar
Equestria at War is funny as shit. I remember having Starlight Glimmer’s Communist Party win the Equestria parliamentary elections, which makes Celestia abdicate in disgust and Luna start a reactionary counter-revolution leading to a civil war, in which the Crystal Empire joins the reactionary forces (naturally). Meanwhile the Fascist Changlings ate some random kingdom of deer before trying to invade Equestria, leading to a desperate trench warfare stalemate along a swampy river basin while I mopped up the domestic reactionaries. Naturally, the solution to this stalemate consisted of two things: nuclear war and lots of it, and a tank column flanking through the subjugated Crystal Empire to mop up the lightly defended north as my infantry marched through a now irradiated swamp, dying in greater numbers to radiation poisoning than to enemy fire.
Then it was just consolidation, more nukes, elaborate ocean crossing and beach landing plans against the Fascist Griffin empire that were obviated because I just covered literally everything in nukes over and over until they had no soldiers left and the war casualty ratio was something like 2,000,000 to some single digit thousands number (because one troop carrier sank). Then just more consolidation to finish painting the map.
Something about the juxtaposition of colorful magical creatures and the horrors of industrialized nuclear warfare waged between reactionaries and revolutionaries who just want a better world almost feels profound.
The most bizzare thing is that apparently gameplay wise its the best hoi4 mod.
Havent tried it but i like owb better cuz of smaller scale.
15·10 hours agoOk, but also it has Socialist. Communist and Anarchist paths.
As I’ve said before: “Do recommend playing the Seapony Posada path, it was fun.”
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