• DogThatWentGorp [he/him, they/them]@hexbear.net
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    3 days ago

    I hope China developing practical fusion technology before 2030 (if that’s where we’re heading) unironically saves the planet not just from fossil fuels but also The West ™.

    They could also do that in some other ways too but fusion power definitely feels like a super effective way to divorce the world from oil hegemonies and create a new industrial revolution with much less effort.

    I 100% could be overly hope-posting and doing too much “technology will save us” style futurism but I like the prospects of a socialist country where Mao and Marx are respected academic sources being the first one to fusion. That feels like the best case scenario out of what we got.

    ((God fusion access as a pillar of belt and road. Fusion-Powered Iran. Fusion powered Vietnam. Fusion powered Burkina-faso. Your new 1st-2nd world is countries with fusion and countries without it and the one controlling that isn’t the US lmao. I’m lathing it.))

    • allende2001@lemmygrad.ml
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      3 days ago

      ((God fusion access as a pillar of belt and road. Fusion-Powered Iran. Fusion powered Vietnam. Fusion powered Burkina-faso. Your new 1st-2nd world is countries with fusion and countries without it and the one controlling that isn’t the US lmao. I’m lathing it.))

      inshallah-script

    • WhatDoYouMeanPodcast [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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      2 days ago

      I think it’s a fool’s game to say that better technology isn’t better. If you’re getting a knee replaced and it’s an outpatient procedure you do in an afternoon that’s a really cool and good thing.

      The discussion had by learned people regarding climate change, to my understanding, is that we’ve crossed over the event horizon for catastrophic damage from climate change. It’s in a similar vein to pollution in the ocean and the like. Something to the effect of suggesting if we had 0 emissions from today onward we’d still experience repercussions. I don’t have a good citation nor the will to seek one out, unfortunately

      So it’s not like easily built housing, renewable energy powered technology, and easily grown food to sustain climate refugees while an effort is made to un-desert their home is a bad thing or an unworthy goal. I have a sneaking suspicion that “technology will save us” is a way of misunderstanding the situation the same way someone might think you’re perfect to date if only you weren’t a communist. I doubt every climate scientist is a Luddite. But they’d probably groan if you suggest carbon capture will reset the clock like it’s a novel idea.

  • purpleworm [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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    3 days ago

    “Nearly limitless” literally just means “limited” without giving any idea at all about the actual amount, which I think is unhelpful on the part of the video’s introduction. The current title of the video, which says “could power the entire planet,” is better if it’s accurate.

    No shade to you yog, it’s a good video to share.

      • purpleworm [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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        3 days ago

        Are you sure it’s not limited in the sense that hundreds of years is limited? Or hundreds of millions? Billions? Quintillions? There’s a difference in a case like this.

        It’s just a bad way to describe things.

    • woodenghost [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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      3 days ago

      The current title of the video, which says “could power the entire planet,” is better if it’s accurate.

      It’s not. It just heats up some water like any old coal power plant. In theory. In practice, fusion just consumes enormous amounts of energy.

  • Blakey [he/him]@hexbear.net
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    3 days ago

    So, does anyone know where fusion is at right now? I believe we’ve achieved fusion reactions now, but last I checked they weren’t sustained and they consumed more energy than they released. Has the research known to the world at large advanced, or is china potentially sitting on something big (or is this perhaps speculative)?

    • woodenghost [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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      3 days ago

      So you’ve heard about fusion before, but it was a while ago, maybe even years ago and now you’d like an update about where the research is at. Are we any closer to commercialization? That’s the good news: you don’t need an update because of the “fusion constant”.

      If asked, how close we are, scientists have given roughly the same answer for generations. Fusion never gets any closer. The answer is always “about 40 years”. And that’s been the case for about 70 years.

      Probably unsolvable problems in principle include: plasma contamination from interaction with the first wall, plasma control and turbulence (magnetohydrodynamics are even harder than the famously unsolved Navier-Stokes equation), finding a reason why to even do it (renewables and batteries get better and cheaper every day, fusion will never be cheap and able to compete).

      • Blakey [he/him]@hexbear.net
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        3 days ago

        Yeah, that’s basically what I had understood to the the case, I guess my real question is - is there anything unusual about this new Chinese project? Or is it just more of the same?

        • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmygrad.mlOP
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          2 days ago

          They have achieved over a minute of sustained firing now. I personally, highly doubt that the problems are unsolvable, it’s just a matter of doing sustained investment in the tech which hasn’t really been done at this scale before. Meanwhile, the solution to plasma control problem is AI, Chinese team successfully developed a system that can do early detection of disruptions.

    • vovchik_ilich [he/him]@hexbear.net
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      2 days ago

      Xi, overseeing the country producing essentially all lithium batteries and solar panels in the planet: “what the fuck do you think I’m doing mate”

    • kristina [she/her]@hexbear.net
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      3 days ago

      Might not solve the climate crisis (unless they are on an imminent breakthrough) but it does solve problems humans have had for thousands of years, research on it is very worth it

      • InevitableSwing [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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        3 days ago

        I’m entirely in favor of research. I expect breakthroughs over the years. Cost effective fusion would be beyond fantastic. But I don’t think it will happen in this century. I can’t say more than that because I’m a Joe Schmoe. All I can do is read articles and hope information and opinions I read are close to reality. I’m not a mathematician or physicist.

  • KnilAdlez [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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    3 days ago

    Can someone quantify ‘nearly limitless’ for me? Like a ton of energy at any given moment, or just not running out of fuel? Could 1 of these power a factory on its own? A city? A country? The entire earth?

    • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmygrad.mlOP
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      3 days ago

      It’s both access to abundant energy and far higher efficiency in producing energy. Fusion is more energy-dense and efficient than fission because it converts a larger fraction of its fuel’s mass into energy. This comes down to the mass per nucleon curve which acts like an energy valley. In fission, heavy elements like uranium split into lighter ones, moving slightly downhill on the curve and converting about 0.1% of mass into energy. In fusion, light nuclei like hydrogen isotopes combine to form helium, which is much farther down the valley wall. This steeper drop allows fusion to convert up to 0.7% of mass into energy. So, gram for gram, fusion fuel can release roughly seven times more energy than fission fuel.

      https://www.nsta.org/blog/focus-physics-how-e-mc2-helps-us-understand-nuclear-fission-and-fusion

    • EatPotatoes [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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      2 days ago

      Just not running out of fuel and not that limitless really. It’s just another reactor boiling water. Likely scaled to 1.9GW for the biggest steam turbines and transmission infrastructure available today to be remotely economical. Would still be another painstaking massive civic engineering project, access to large bodies of water that isn’t too hot because of climate change and alot more electricity inputs then starting a fission reaction.

      Unless you are swindling venture capitalists. You need two fuels - deuterium and tritium. Deuterium is extremly ambudent and energy dense but tritium can only be produced in large quantities from lithium. David MacKay’s “Lithium Fusion” feels like a more honest representation. That author’s own estimate is 10KWh/d of sustainable energy per person. I hope somebody can challenge this because comparing it with 2008 consumption that’s 1/6th of what the author estimates is required under best circumstances for improvements in efficiency that still have to be realised.

      edit: kind of disingenuous of me when the figures improve from lithium sea mining. I just have a knee jerk reaction to pop science journalism. I also think it’s sad we held out for a the holy grail of fusion or le thorium epic bacon molten salt reactors when the PWR was perfectly fine.