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Oh, you crazy leftoids think Israel’s behind the demonstrations? Oh? would Israel burn a mosque???
Only if there’s children inside and the Where’s Daddy program works.
I had the same thought but with hospitals
The western outlets are all so busy jerking off to a burning mosque it’s hard to find any information about it. A church burning down would at least have a paragraph about how long it had been there, who the community leaders are, how big the congregation is, if it was a real fancy building the architect or something special like that would be mentioned
Burning Mosques is a really dumb way to go about trying to overthrow the government, the west in their mindless arrogance seems to be betting everything on an increasingly shrinking minority of criminal groups and fringe freaks among Iranian society
Bad fuckin move
I heard one person say something to the effect of
Come on, burn the mosques after the revolution, doing it before is just dumb, you’ll lose the religious supporters
If as a leftist state project you dont have a plan to immediately rid yourself of organised religion you don’t possess pattern recognition.
As soon as you seize power you have to think about how to kill the clergy.Edit: This is not a joke.
You should have a plan on how to neuter the clergy, but if you use organized religion to help the revolution only to clamp down violently on them - you’re going to create a corrupt failed state with failed promises.
Inherently, betraying revolutionaries who helped you involves failed promises.
The people who would carry out those orders and make those plans -inherently would not hold paramount the values of the revolution. These people would also be the ones consolidating power.
The legitimacy of your new government, founded on the abandoned values of the revolution, would fall into question.
Boom. You have a government with as much strife as the Islamic Republic of Iran, and foreign powers invade, attack, and subvert you from the inside.
The global proletariat is not going to love you for an attempt to kill all clergy. They’ll hate you even more if they see you openly planning to deceive them like the person @oliveoil@hexbear.net was quoting did.
Literally all successful revolutionary movements have had to eventually marginalise the clergy. The interests of a socialist project and the interests of the clergy will never align once an immediate threat has been dispatched, and the clergy has always and will always seek to snuff out the revolution, as indeed it did in Iran.
Anticlericalism is objectively the right position for the left, Lenin, Stalin, Mao and Castro were right.
Clerics should be carefully marginalized from political power, but the way you’re expressing and conceptualizing that necessity is the worst possible way to go about it when it comes to the region
If you ever in a million years want socialism to even remotely have a fringe presence in the muslim world then you best drop this nonsense quick and in a hurry
The muslim world is not the west with its slow history of secular anticlericalism born from the fractures of Christian polities, literally the ONLY THING keeping a billion muslims from hoisting the sickle and hammer is the successful Saudi-led propaganda victory that tied militant atheism to communism in the minds of practically every muslim
Exactly.
Anti-colonial, anti-western bloc of people, open to wealth redistribution - perfect for communism.
But, they are deeply religious, and western and soviet thinking on how to deal with that will result in the same defeats we have seen time and time again throughout MENA.
I don’t know what the fuck your problem is, but my “western chauvinist fascist” alarms start going off whenever I see someone going all :frothing-fash:
about killing Muslims, even when “but they’re religious zealots!” is the excuse. Whatever the excuse, it still disgusts me.The most charitable guess I can hazard is to suspect you are making the very common western atheist anti-christian mistake of generalizing your experience of being oppressed by Christianity and then applying that to a completely different religious, cultural, and political context.
Shut the fuck up, take a step back, and think this shit through.
Removed by mod
“eventually marginalize” and mass murder/incineration are two very different things wtf
This is a clearer argument than what you said originally.
As soon as you seize power you have to think about how to kill the clergy.
Edit: This is not a joke.
This was what you said before, which is very different from the idea that the clergy should be marginalized from political power.
The marginilisation of the clergy in a place where the clergy hold any kind of institutional power inevitably involves violence. You should always have a plan to kill the fucking priests.
Your plan should not be created immediately after the fact. You should have a plan beforehand, because it must not contradict the premise of the revolution.
If you don’t manage your promises to the religious population, and you inevitably have to break them ad-hoc - then your legitimacy as a government falls into question.
There is a huge difference between destroying religious authority/political organization vs burning churches and killing people for being clergy. The first one is absolutely necessary and the second is ridiculous and reactionary.
Succesfuly doing one tends to require the other. You have to plan for killing the priests. I wont apologise for being right.
I wont apologise for being right
This is a goofy affectation, no one wants you to “apologise”
Impossible to apologize for being right when this KKKracKKKer is consistently and deliberately wrong
What we are taking about is claiming to have a cross-political revolution combing various religions, ethnicities, and economic outlooks (capitalism, socialism, communism, anarchism, etc) - only to completly fuck them over after the fact.
All this knowing full well beforehand.
The Islamic revolution that brought this government did this too by killing and purging communists. This doesn’t end well.
The islamic republic is currently in charge and the communists are dead. It worked out for them.
They immediately got invaded and dragged into a war worse than the Russia Ukraine war in terms of destruction and casualties, and they struggle to this very day to keep it together.
This was caused in part by the Iranian Supreme leader calling for the overthrow of the Ba’athist government, not by the betrayal of the revolutionaries. It was not a result of the betrayal. This is… I don’t know what you’re trying to do here, but it doesn’t seem cogent.
Based
Hoxha-posting on this and only this issue on this website is morbidly funny.
I’m glad someone got it
Somehow I feel like a group of American Patriots burning down a church in the US wouldn’t be seen the same way on reddit.
A few churches were torched around Canada in 2021, after a mass grave of indigenous children (containing the remains of over 250 children) was found underneath a residential school run by the Canadian government in the mid-1900’s. Following the news, conservatives were quick to identify themselves as the number one victims of hate in Canada today
holy smoke
this was unironically my dad’s kneejerk response when he heard that notre dame went up in flames
Didn’t the Catholic church run a lot of those schools?
Protestants and Catholics are all under the Christian umbrella, if it means Protestants can come up with excuses to whine about stuff.
Yeah I just meant why churches were targeted in that case, instead of some government building or something
everybody i talked to was not condoning the arson but there was a pervasive “yeah i get it”, i think because the idea of priests doing priest things has been in the zeitgeist for a couple decades following the boston shit.
I’ll do you one better: Imagine reddits reaction to Palestinians burning down a synagogue in an Israeli settlement.
The French Revolution famously sought to replace an elected president with a monarch with zero popular support
Have you considered cool lion flag tho
Reddit never changes
The only thing that might outweigh their hatred of non-westerners is their love for Wehrmacht soldiers
Something something sky daddy
I thought french republicans destroying churches and replacing them with temples of reason was a bad evul stalinism? So its good now?
The amount of Islamophobia is staggering, its not that serious in the end.
The delusions of that botted shithole is incredible
do they think that reality is a bideo bame and the mosque generates like a thought suppression field or something?
in this moment the iranian people were truly euphoric
The most astroturfed post I’ve ever seen, anywhere
I’m not gonna claim that it wasn’t Mossad – or that they aren’t happy about it – but having grown up Mormon in Utah I could understand why someone within the nation would want to do this.
At a certain point you no longer know if the church is lying about the outside world wanting you dead or not. Much like how many Soviets or modern Chinese people honestly thought that the US was thriving and that their state was lying to them.
I’m not going to claim that from my Anarchist perspective this is actually a good thing. No matter how this ends it will hurt a lot of people. But that was always the imperialist goal. That’s why they focus on non reactionary opposition first, so when everyone is tired a d just wants peace the strongest ones left are the least stable.
Hello fellow “not” Mossads. 
What hate crimes are we doing today for our “revolution”?The only possible way this goes well for the protest is if wider society blames the government for failing to protect the mosque from this and gets mad at them for it rather than blaming the protest itself and losing support.
Perhaps if people are upset enough it becomes a symbol of “we don’t care” or “yes this was to be expected” in the current events, but I don’t think so. It’s not the same as a government building or large palace residence burning that people might be indifferent to in somewhere like Ukraine during Maidan. Those things tend to benefit the atmosphere of the ongoing revolution whereas I’m pretty doubtful of this. Perhaps the point is not to help the protests but as a spectacle for the outside world immediately before the US and Israel start bombing.
I’d think this is not an appeal to the local population but to (islamophobic) westerners.
I don’t think it’s an appeal.
It’s a show. This kind of thing forms part of a narrative of natural overthrow of the regime, and that the people wanted it so much that they would even burn down mosques to achieve it. The playbook of western regime change is to generate unrest as part of the narrative of regime change then to quietly prepare their replacement behind the scenes. What actually achieves the regime change is a coup of some sort that occurs behind the backdrop of all the unrest, but the story that is told in the media is of the people performing a revolution and naturally overthrowing the regime.
Something bigger is probably coming if that is what this is.
Usually people try to avoid the blame being put on the anti-goverment action by spreading misinformation that these sorts of things are a conspiracy by the government to win over support and to blame them.
However, they’ve been very overt, burned quite a number of mosques, and got it all video - we can even see one of them raising up their hands here.
The misinfo train won’t work this time.
The claims of CIA involvement I’ve heard are foolish but Mossad absolutely have the ability to operate covertly in Iran. They always have a least a handful of sleeper agents in country for years long stretches. Likely the Israelis didn’t start this but they’d be quick to capitalize on it.
is there a meaningful difference between the two? i’m sure plenty of the scum cash two checks.
Yea usually we mean CIA or Mossad to mean generally imperial intelligence.
I think more than half of the shit we say is CIA is actually some other US Intel agency.
But does that level of granularity matter? It’s not like we have capabilities to perform any sort of countermeasures here.
I mean, besides that Mossad is the Top and CIA is the bottom? CIA has atrophied alot since the end of the cold war where as Mossad is still in top shape and has a much higher focus on undercover human assets.
I mean, besides that Mossad is the Top and CIA is the bottom?
If anything, this is probably backward, though I don’t think “top and bottom” is a particularly good analogy either way.
CIA has atrophied alot since the end of the cold war where as Mossad is still in top shape and has a much higher focus on undercover human assets.
This I think is probably true, though.
I don’t think “top and bottom” is a particularly good analogy either way
Dominant and submissive? Israel does what they want, the US does what they’re told in this relationship.
I don’t think the mosque itself is burning based on this picture. The spots that look like flames are very concentrated and circular, like artificial lights. IMO it seems more likely that the car in the bottom right of the frame is on fire and the lights in the mosque are illuminating the smoke.
Such a thing would also burn the mosque, and others have been burned already.
It’s earlier than I expected tbh.
