I literally just got fucking scolded and told I have some “accountability for my behavior” or whatever because I replied to someone who was insulting me, defaming my character, and lying about me with “Fuck you, you lying piece of shit.” This isn’t the first time this has happened, and it’s always in these anarchist/“radical” mutual aid groups. I was flabbergasted. It was like I was on some other planet.
I’ve seen that happen as well, both in anarchist and in less ideologically focussed / more liberal-leaning queer communities. There can be some pretty hardcore ostracism mechanics going on in self-organized groups with hidden, clout-based hierarchies. It’s also always coming from a specific kind of person in my experience, i’ve learned to recognize their vibe and watch out for them. I find it hard to put into words, but some folks, they’re like a live wire when it comes to this stuff.
There can be some pretty hardcore ostracism mechanics going on in self-organized groups with hidden, clout-based hierarchies.
What if instead of Jo Freeman it was Jo Fremen.
I’ll take Jo Stalin, personally
some “socialists” or “leftists” want to be cult leaders and use “organizing” as their way of fulfilling their fantasy
Ive seen a lot of queer people use queer organizing as a way to create toxic polycules which take over the org which is sus
When education is not liberatory, the dream of the oppressed is to become the oppressor
I’ve seen this mostly from sex negative transmisogynist transmascs who will slutshame trans women at every opportunity, but besides that, i recognize a lot of the behaviors described ITT
Because there’s nobody to deal with conflict resolution or teaching people interpersonal skills. There’s always going to be disagreements in groups and some members will hate each other, especially in large organization. Everyone won’t be friends and won’t always like each other, but a lot of people don’t know how to handle it and don’t know how to handle sharing spaces with others who they disagree with.
At the end of the day mutual aid should be for mutual aid first, not making friends. I don’t care if people hate me or if I don’t like them, as long as we get some work done they can lib out all they want in their free time.
I notice it a lot even here, people are so rigid and stuck to their ways sometimes it feels like I am punching a brick wall when I am just trying to understand what’s up. But then again people critique me for being too malleable often so I have my own issues to deal with.
I like how this thread has progressed. I did a good thing by making this post.
I’m legit happy to know I’m not just crazy.
It isn’t the first time what has happened? You’ve been told you need to be accountable for your behavior, or the first time you’ve butted heads with mutual aid groups?
it’s probably not what you want to hear but I get the feeling you’re leaving something out. It doesn’t really seem like you’re asking a question either but i know very little.
I’m not.
And I mean, this isn’t the first time I’ve been attacked in one of these groups, and then scolded for biting back and feeling like I’m in an episode of The Twilight Zone because it’s like they don’t see the person attacking me at all. It almost seems like a joke, like I’m being punked, but I’m not.
When I played sports we had a saying “the referee won’t see the instigating but they will see the retaliation”
Sorry that happened to you
I have let to encounter any local anarchist, ML, DSA, etc group which wasn’t led by like 3 of the most vile clout and Twitter-obsessed assholes with zero social skills.
The trots here in Ireland are really annoying (and have sex pest problems) but at least you can join a local group and its not being used by someone who wants to use it just to hold power over people.
Local trans groups are also like this but they’re also usually led by trans anarchists who want to have power over people and yell at people.
its always “erm you SLIGHTLY disagreed with Sarah. YOU NOW NEED TO FUCKING DO A PUBLIC HUMILIATION RITUAL TO THE GROUP AND APOLOGIZE ABOUT HOW EVIL AND BAD YOU ARE OR YOU’RE KICKED OUT!”
Its like they want to run a cult not anything useful
I will also say the big difference I’ve noticed between joining local ML/maoist groups and anarchist groups is that ML groups are usually mostly men who watch the deprogram and hasan and use too much reddit have never read theory. Anarrchist groups will contain more women, who do not watch hasan or the deprogram, but they also don’t read theory.
Trots usually do read theory, but its literally only ever trot theory and nothing else, and every trot group Ive seen has been very equal in gender %.
IDK what this means
IDK what this means
Speaking for the UK, the ML groups are almost all dudes because they’re sexist terf wankers. The only women in them are terfs, a good portion of them probably fed plants or infiltrators.
All the women with pro-lgbt social views (which is near 100% of women left of liberal) find this a dealbreaker.
Can’t speak for elsewhere in the world but sexism is probably holding back women organisers in orgs and it’s charismatic visible organising women that tend to attract more women if there are no other dealbreakers.
I wrote a paper once how second wave feminism in the UK only really started because men in all the uk maoist organizations literally couldn’t stop themselves from hating women
I suspect this has been inherited in the left from Men’s Working Clubs and the pre-Thatcher left being all-male dirty industry like mining and ship building. The culture transitioned to many of the surviving unions instead and still stinks up the hard-left to this day.
It ironically might be better today if MORE of the left had been destroyed back then so that the culture didn’t survive.
“Because elites are informal does not mean they are invisible. At any small group meeting anyone with a sharp eye and an acute ear can tell who is influencing whom. The members of a friendship group will relate more to each other than to other people. They listen more attentively, and interrupt less; they repeat each other’s points and give in amiably; they tend to ignore or grapple with the “outs” whose approval is not necessary for making a decision.”
Fun fact there are like three different trans socials in dublin. One is irrelevant. One sucks, and the other is for trans fems.
The one for trans fems was TAKEN OVER BY A FUCKING POLYCULE AT SOME POINT. SO if you went it would be super fucking awkward to try to socialize because a fucking polycule would be 80% of the people there and if they didn’t find you hot or interesting enough to join the polycule they wouldn’t talk to you.
So now the transfer social has a representation with local transfems (who aren’t babytrans) of just being a big weird anarchist polycule. IDK if its still like that or if it still goes on. THe trans rights non profit shit down its building where it was hosted.
But this article is reminding me how these anarchist “no organizer” shit always ends up being toxic.
Reminds me of our student movement here too.
They started out as anti-political essentially anarchist with some lib talking points about “democracy and a state that respects the law”. To turning to electoralism and shit.
Only the be infiltrated by NGO’s that are both lib and right wing lmao. The whole thing is essentially over now. People were hyping this up mind you to be a revolution.
Yeah “political org that’s actually just a Polycule” seems to be an oddly common experience around here.
We should unironically enforce volcel police in our political organizations to combat this bullshit.
